A Point of View Like No Other: Jed Nosal

As a firm, we believe our team members unique perspectives allow us to deliver more integrated solutions, fresh perspectives, and quality advice. Each Saturday throughout the month, we're broadcasting interviews with some of our attorneys featuring stories about their careers and told in their own words, illustrating just how our firm offers a point of view like no other. First up, Jed Nosel from Boston.

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Welcome to Womble Perspectives, where we explore a wide range of topics, from the latest legal updates to industry trends to the business of law. Our team of lawyers, professionals and occasional outside guests will take you through the most pressing issues facing businesses today and provide practical and actionable advice to help you navigate the ever changing legal landscape.

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 Welcome to another episode of Womble Perspectives, the first in our 2024 February Saturday series. As a firm, we believe our team members unique perspectives allow us to deliver more integrated solutions, fresh perspectives, and quality advice. Each Saturday throughout the month, we're broadcasting interviews with some of our attorneys featuring stories about their careers and told in their own words, illustrating just how our firm offers a point of view like no other. First up, Jed Nosel from Boston. Jed, thank you for joining us today.

 Going back to before your career started, when did you know you were going to practice law? What got you started on this route of becoming an attorney?

 Sure. So, I'm going to actually combine sort of the answers to both why law and why government, because they're related. So I'll be frank. When I was finishing college, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. The law was always something that I respected and had respect for people that went into it.

 I thought I really couldn't go wrong with what, with a law degree in a law school education. And I thought, regardless of where I ended up, I thought that was going to be a good sort of foundation for critical thinking and any number of career paths after that.

 And while I was in law school, I ended up with an internship in my second year at the city of Boston, Boston police department. And I met a group of lawyers and the then legal advisor to the police commissioner. That really inspired me not only to pursue a career in law, but also, to pursue a career in government. And I saw this level of dedication and commitment, and camaraderie amongst government lawyers that was really inspirational to me. And it not only solidified, and ratified, in a lot of ways, my decision to go to law school and be part of this, become a government lawyer, which not only had I not thought about,being a lawyer, a practicing lawyer, but then a government lawyer that was probably not on my radar screen at all. And yet these lawyers, that I spent some time with really was in very formative years, both my legal education and then as a practicing lawyer, really, set me down a course to both, practice and represent the public interest and the government.

Continuing on that thread for a little bit, you've worked for a lot of government agencies before you entered private practice. What were those experiences like? Were there common elements between them?

 Sure. So first I'm going to go back to the people, because that's where it all began for me. And not only were they some of the best people that I've served with in government and that I've worked for in government, were not only people that were incredibly dedicated to what they were doing, they were also, incredible lawyers.

 And the people that serve and serve the public interest are really this very talented group. And I think that being part of that type of a team, and being able to call on anybody within sort of that government infrastructure if you have a particular issue is really something that to me was very unique.

 And government has such a depth of experience when it comes to lawyers and expertise. And you really don't have to think twice about, hey, you know what? I really have a really tough issue around a tax matter that would be helpful for me to understand.

 And you can literally go to probably somebody that's written that part of the code, or has written a treaty, or has enforced that particular provision for a number of years. And I found sort of that willingness and that camaraderie and that sort of collective interest in serving the public is something that's really incredibly unique to public service.

 And again, throughout my years as a lawyer, still thinking back and seeing sort of the talent and the expertise of the people that were there that it's really something that I have never experienced. It's tough to replicate, certainly, outside of being part of the government, and being a government lawyer.

And that's interesting you say that. I don't think a lot of people know that. And seeing this sort of talent and dedication, that it's kind of an anomalous role in a way, but vital to our system. 

Yeah. And again, getting back to this experience, and I use this word with respect, not in a negative way, lawyers that spend their career in government and people may look and call them maybe more bureaucrats than lawyers. I think that that's essential for the functioning of the highly effective functioning of government to have that level of experience, to have people that are that talented. And work that hard in order to serve again sort of the public interest as opposed to a private interest. And seeing that sort of across the board in all the different levels of government that I've served at and seeing the leadership in some of those offices has been again really inspirational to me.

And for me as a young lawyer to spend time with people like that. It really formulated sort of not only the way that I practice, it really formulated the way that I approach the entire legal profession as well, which is one with humility and respect and one that's interested in both solving problems, but doing it in a way that's incredibly constructive and consistent with what the overall interests of now a client would be.

But then what the government's interests and what the public interest would have been at the time. And you asked about sort of the different experiences. It's interesting when you work in local government, you work in state government, and I think this would extend to the federal government, although I've never practiced there, your job moves almost further away from decisions that directly affect people.

Right. When I worked for the Boston police department, you were dealing with a case or a particular issue that once it was resolved, you saw the immediate effect. I did all civil work for the Boston police department and it's kind of where I first got my interest in sort of regulated industries.

And I used to do a lot of work around regulating the taxi. You know, you would make changes and you would immediately see how those changes are implemented and how the public was served by better service or better vehicles within the taxi fleet. As you move away from that, you get to the state level, you're dealing with arguably larger decisions, but ones that you see less of that sort of direct impact on an individual person or particular sector.

And I think as you move up the continuum to the federal government, again, bigger issues, larger responsibilities, but less, probably, matters, that end up sort of affecting an individual person very quickly. And I think that was sort of an interesting sort of difference between working at the local level and the state level, certainly.

And again, I'm assuming it sort of continues that way on the federal level as well.

It makes sense that would be the case where at the local level it probably does have the more direct, immediate individual impact.

Yeah. You work for the governor, and you're helping shape legislation that's going to affect the six odd million, uh, residents of the commonwealth of Massachusetts, and it's going to be really important, and it's going to make a difference. You work for the city, you're dealing with a specific case, an individual that may have an issue with the city that if you can resolve it, that's going to provide a direct benefit to them almost instantaneously.

So, it was a real difference for me in at least working at the local level and working at the state level.

At any level of government practice you've been in, is there a particular case that stands out as being a particularly interesting one or one that really illustrates the dedication to public service that you talked about among your colleagues?

It's difficult to think of one particular case. I think there were some interesting aspects of the jobs that I've had that you can never replicate in the private sector, for instance, advising the governor on whether or not she has the constitutional right to bring back the legislature in order to take up an important matter involving public interest. My work as the general counsel to the public utility commission, sort of managing a caseload and being involved in decisions that were directly affecting utility rates for billions of people, as well as ensuring that people had safe and reliable service.

My work at the attorney general's office, also, there were some matters that involved regulatory decisions by the attorney general that had a dramatic impact on certain sectors, whether it's the utility sector, the healthcare sector. And in some cases, and this is the most interesting thing about government, again, sort of when you take an oath for a job and swear to uphold the state's constitution, the federal constitution, and your office. It's often the decisions that no one knows about. And really, a decision not to do anything may be just as important as taking an enforcement action.

And I think back at my time in the attorney general's office, and it was really those deliberative processes where we spent a lot of time and a lot of resources looking at a particular issue and then deciding, you know, that actually things are as they should be here.

And we're going to walk away, and we're going to allow, in this case, sort of the market to operate the way it's operating. We've looked at it. We've determined whether or not there's something that's happening here that's not in the public's interest. And sometimes that's not the case.

And I've been fortunate to work for leaders that have the confidence to do that. And sometimes those are the hardest decisions because you're never going to get credit for it. You're never going to get any political points for it if you work for an elected official. And I think those were sort of some of the most challenging and interesting matters I worked on that I ended up feeling really good about.

But to end up explaining to people because in some cases people will say, well you should have took more, the state should have intervened in that particular matter or others will say, well you did what you should do. There was nothing wrong here and you shouldn't have been looking at the issue in the first place.

But I think it's government's job to get in, call balls and strikes and where there's an issue, get involved. But where there's not, you know allow either you know an individual or a company or a particular sector to continue to operate without government overreach as well.

With that discretion to determine whether or not you're going to take action or not becomes a lot of responsibility. And I been fortunate to look work for elected officials that really took that responsibility seriously, and we're looking more at getting it right than necessarily getting something out of it.

On a lighter note, you're very much a Boston insider. And when you have friends or colleagues come in from out of town, what's your favorite place to take them that maybe they wouldn't know about if they just went on the tourist beaten path?

Yeah. The one, it seems everybody wants to be a part of, and it's a real treasure that we have here, is our great Fenway park and a Boston Red Sox game. So that seems to be the most common thing that folks like to do.

I encourage people when they come to town to explore the Boston harbor islands. They're really a gem that's been preserved over the literally centuries. And if you experience those islands, you understand a lot more about Boston's place. You know, as a port.

And to see sort of the views of the city from that vantage point is really incredible. So it's something I typically like people to do. It's interesting. Boston, like many cities, continues to sort of reinvent itself. Some institutions have remained, like Fenway park, and there's other parts of the city that literally have been developed in the last ten years. Like our new seaport district, which is right across from our office here in Boston. That's, again, just a great new destination that the city has really taken, has really sort of taken advantage of.

Again, it being a harbor city, and developing that area in a way that's really been incredible. And of course, there's always some favorite old time bars that seem to stick around here in Boston, including one pretty close to our office that's got a storied past. Not in a bad way. But Lucky's Lounge, where I would suggest people maybe take in a cocktail or two.

Those who know you know that you're almost never seen without a bow tie. So what's the story behind that?

Yeah, no, it's a good one. And it kind of goes back to a lot of the things that we've been talking about. There's a little bit of a government sort of piece here. Growing up, my dad wore a bow tie every once in a while. Wasn't a regular thing for him but it wasn't also something that was completely unusual to me. And I, growing up, would also occasionally wear a bow tie. It wasn't really something that was a particular part of my, I guess, part of my wardrobe, but not something that was in any way dominant.

And so, when I did start working and then going back to that internship when I had in law school working for the city of Boston police department in their legal advisor's office, I would wear a bow tie every once in a while. 

And although I've been in Boston since 1993, coming up on what, almost 30 years, I was still somewhat of an outsider. I wasn't born here, didn't grow up in any of the Boston neighborhoods, and I had a name that was fairly unusual, especially if you were working in government in the city of Boston.

Not a lot of Jeds. There are a lot of Billys, a lot of Scotties. And, certainly not a common name. And for some reason, my boss at the time, my ultimate boss, the city of Boston police commissioner, a guy named Paul Evans, could never really remember my name, you know, he used to just refer to me as, oh, what was the short guy with the bow tie.

So I just decided, I'm like, all right, at least the guy knows who I am, right? This guy's busy running a police department and the fact that he actually knows who I am is important. So I said, I'm going to just continue sort of this as a thing now.

And it might not be a big deal in the heart of where Womble's from, or even in sort of the greater Boston legal community, to be a bow tie guy, but to be a government bow tie guy is definitely something that's a thing. And it just sort of, kind of continued to develop from that.

And it's something that I was always known for in government, and it stuck. And I had that experience where, I guess, again, it's better to be known for something than not known at all. And if it took sort of being the bow tie guy to give people an opportunity for, or give me an opportunity to, you know, Prove myself as a lawyer, that was fine with me.

What a great story. Jed, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Womble Perspectives.

Absolutely.

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