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HOST
As a firm, we believe our team members' unique perspectives allow us to deliver more integrated solutions, fresh perspectives, and quality advice. Each Saturday throughout the month, we're broadcasting interviews with some of our attorneys featuring stories about their careers and told in their own words, illustrating just how our firm offers a point of view like no other.
Today, we're speaking with Jasmine Chalashtori who practices out of our D.C. office. Thanks so much, Jasmine, for joining us on our podcast.
The question we like to start with on these episodes has to do with your life and career trajectory. Can you tell us a bit about when you decided you wanted to go to law school and become a lawyer?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Well, it's funny. I actually didn't wanna be a lawyer. In fact, I was firmly against the concept for most of my life. To be fair, I think the number of people who can say that they knew they wanted to be a lawyer from a young age is probably fairly small. I think most people think of, you know, oh, I want to be a firefighter or whatever the case may be. So I didn't quite know what I wanted to do.
My mom is a lawyer, my uncle is a lawyer, my grandfather is a lawyer. And I just, I don't know, I wanted to do something different. And so I grew up in theater and performing arts, but I'm a realist. And so, I knew that that would be a very difficult career path for me. Terrible at math and science, so that knocked out some of the other professions. And then in college, I found that I really enjoyed political sciences and particularly my classes where the law and political sciences overlapped.
So I remember taking a class on the American presidency and we dove pretty far into questions of constitutional law and sort of, executive powers and those sorts of things, and I found that fascinating. So after college, I still wasn't sure I wanted to go to law school. I was going to join the AmeriCorps, the Peace Corps. Where I would get paid nearly nothing to live in strange conditions. And, so that was that was where I was headed.
And then I got a call from a professor from my undergrad about a job at the US Attorney's Office in Orlando, and that's where I was. I'm from Florida originally. So, I did administrative work alongside trial attorneys there and for federal agents for a year. And I applied to law school while I was working there, and I remember writing my personal statement and I literally wrote, like, Hey, I didn't think I wanted to be a lawyer. I didn't, you know, this was not sort of on my radar.
And then things just kept falling into place. Right? And that's the beautiful thing about life sometimes is that that, the things that you don't think you want keep popping back up and that's how you know that they're probably right for you.
So I went to law school and then when I went to law school, I was like, I don't wanna be a litigator. I wanna do something. So it shows how well I know myself or what's good for me.
As it turns out, I love being a litigator, and I really couldn't see myself doing any other practice. I love the chase, the investigation, piecing the facts together. I love hunting for and finding the perfect case to fit into a brief.
Being a litigator, it's sort of like operating in a game of chess. There are moves, counter moves, and I really love the strategic aspects of that. it also requires an incredible amount of creativity. I don't think that the law gets enough credit for being a creative field, but it absolutely is a creative field. You are constantly having to anticipate as a litigator how opposing counsel might react to something you do what their next move might be and how your move might affect their strategy. You also have to think about how a judge might interpret what you're doing, or a particular judge versus a different judge.
And so you're catering to different audiences, and it does require a lot of creativity to see how you can best advocate for your client, given the facts and the law. but more than anything, I love winning. I love getting a good result for the client. There's really no better feeling than that. So as much as I thought I knew what was best for me, I'm glad that I ended up exactly where I am.
HOST
That's great – thanks for sharing that.
You also mentioned that you came from a family with lawyers. Did they offer any advice or guidance along the way when you made this decision?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Wow. So my mom was a nontraditional law student. She went later in life, so she was in her thirties when she went, and she had my brother in her first year of law school. And so she had a toddler while in law school.
And, so when I was in law school and I would call her and be like, oh my gosh, this is really hard, it's really difficult. You know, I'm I'm struggling, etcetera. She'd be like, no, you are not. You are fine. Because not only did she have a toddler, she, it was also in, you know, before the era of computers and whatnot. I mean, she had typewriters but they couldn't do online legal research.
So it was it was very much, you know, she'd go to the library and someone would have ripped all the pages out of the book that she needed for whatever thing. And so it was it was very competitive. And so her advice to me was mostly, stick it out. I came back from my first semester of law school, and I was like, I don't know. I this this was really something, and and I had always prided myself on on on being a really good student and I found myself not struggling but like having to work, which was not something I was accustomed to. And so she basically said listen if you get your grades back after the end of the first semester and they're not good then that's okay. We can we'll find something else for you to do. I have no doubt you're gonna do great things with whatever you do but wait until your grades come back and then we can make a decision. My grades came back and they were good. And she was like, okay. Now you stay.
So that was not not particularly poignant pieces of advice, but it was mostly just suck it up and stick it out.
HOST
Well it certainly worked out for you.
Sticking with the family theme, you've mentioned before how much your Iranian American heritage means to you and in including this notion of hospitality. And you’ve mentioned that it has shaped how you approach your practice. What is it about your heritage and this concept that you feel makes you a better lawyer?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Yeah. So, Iranian Iranians as a general matter are, known to be some of the most hospitable people in the world. They'll, you know, take the shirt off their back, they'll sleep on the couch, they'll just say just from the moment you walk into an Iranian's home, it's what can I get you? What can I do for you? And I joke about it too because it almost becomes to the point of like, why aren't you eating? Do you not like what I made you? I'll make you something else. It's very specific. Right?
And, but it all comes from a place of of love and wanting to make someone feel cared for and heard and seen and understood. And I and that that to me is what hospitality is really all about. And that sounds a little maybe a little strange for the law, but I think it's important to remember that the law is a service industry. So my clients come to me with big problems where the stakes are high and the stress levels are even higher, and I empathize with that. No one ever wants to have to call the litigator. I'm the person that they call to go into battle for them. So it's tremendously important that my clients feel heard and seen and respected and understood and like they're part of this process.
I think sometimes it's a sometimes an attorney might be like, well, I'm just gonna take care of it. Right? And and I don't wanna just take care of it. I want them to understand how and why and be involved as involved as they wanna be. If they tell me they don't wanna be involved, that's fine. But I always wanna make sure that my clients feel, like, in these really high stakes situations, they're being heard and seen and listened to and understood. So that's really where that comes into practice for me.
HOST
That’s always a good thing to keep in mind, that we don't work for companies. We work for people at companies. It's an important distinction.
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
That's absolute that's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. And I think, you know, we're not working for faceless companies. Right? Our clientele are are companies where you're talking to the general counsel, the in house counsel, or the the business owner, or or the CFO, or the CEO, people who are affected by what's happening.
And, again, litigation is so high stakes. It's so stressful. It's it's daunting in many ways. And so I like to help my clients feel like they're being taken by the hand and they're being they're part of the team, and we're going through this together, and that I will always have their best interest in mind, not just because that's my ethical duty, but because that's what I feel is important in my practice as a lawyer from a hospitality perspective and from a service industry perspective.
So sometimes that means talking clients out of hiring me, right, because it's not the right thing for them. You would be surprised how many times I end up, you know, having a conversation with somebody about, hey, maybe we should settle this one, right? Because this one, let me lay it all out for you. This is where it's gonna go and this is what it's gonna look like and think about your time and the emotional aspects of litigation as well because that's an unseen cost but it has real tangible value.
And so, you know, sometimes that that's not necessarily in my interest. It's my interest to to bring the client in and to and to rack up the fees, but that's not that's just not how I practice. My practice is meant to be efficient, and it's meant to respect the client's cost needs, time needs, and everything in between. And, you know, at the end of the day, that reputation will carry forth in in into the world.
HOST
And people know that you'll shoot straight with them.
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
So Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that comes from a a I started at a at a fairly small firm in Northern Virginia and, because of that, our clientele were smaller. That was my first job out and I chose that job specifically because I wanted a lot of trial experience. And so I got a ton of trial experience there. I got a ton of in court experience. I was in depositions all the time. But it really programmed into me this concept of, again, hospitality and efficiency for the for the client's best interest.
HOST
In addition to your very busy business litigation practice, you've also done a lot of pro bono work. What do you do in the pro bono space and what is it about that work that’s so important to you?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Sure. Sure. So there's sort of two areas that I've done pro bono work in before, and I really enjoy them. The first I've done, immigration cases, asylum cases in particular, and I developed something of a niche in, representing LGBTQ plus people who are coming from South American countries and seeking asylum in the United States on the basis of their sexual orientation.
And there are a bunch of bases you can seek asylum for, and fear of persecution is one of those. And sometimes in these South American countries, it can be really terrible for the LGBTQ plus community. And so I represented in two separate cases, individuals from South America in in asylum proceedings and was able to obtain asylum for both of those individuals.
And it involves having an expert, right, who's able to testify about the conditions in South America. And so working with experts closely to sort of put together reports on the conditions there, and all that in order to present the case that this is a legitimate fear of persecution in South America. So that's that's one bucket. And I haven't done one of those cases in some time, but the the organization that I work with, when they find when they get one, they they'll reach out to me and say, hey, you know, you've done this before and can do it again.
And then the other bucket of pro bono that I've done a bunch of is, parole commission work, where essentially I will be representing someone who's been convicted of a crime, many, many years ago and is now up for a parole. And they have a hearing before the parole board and there's a number of criteria and they assign them a score and all these other things. And oftentimes they walk into those meetings unrepresented.
And the first individual that I represented, he had been before the parole board four times unsuccessfully, where he had no attorney representation. And he was a really unique case because he committed the crime when he was very young and, he also had not a single disciplinary action in something like twenty seven years in being in prison.
So he's now, you know, in his forties, he's had no disciplinary actions, which is really remarkable. It's not something you see, and somehow couldn't get parole. And it was really just a matter of him not feeling confident enough about representing himself and advocating for himself in these meetings.
He was convicted again at a very young age. He didn't finish high school. So his oral advocacy skills on his own behalf were not great. And I met with him several times before the hearing and we kind of just talked through, you know, how how to present yourself and how to present because these hearings are a little different and then I'm not totally repping the client. The client is still answering the questions, etcetera, but I'm really there as, like, the middle person.
And so it really became sort of almost like a coaching opportunity where I was just having him talk to me about how he felt and how, you know, what his time in prison had been like and all of these different things. And by the time we got to the hearing, he did such a great job. And then I was also able to sort of create an intermediary when, the conversation strayed into areas that were, not as favorable for him. I was able to sort of help facilitate that conversation. And he ended up getting parole.
And he got out during COVID, which was a whole other thing, right, because he, like, got out into the world and the world had ended. And, he still, calls me and texts me from time to time. He'll yeah. He'll shoot me a text and be like, this is me at work, and this is me me with my car. And, you know, so it's it's it's really sweet.
So I've done a couple of those cases. Some successful, some not successful, some are more difficult than others, but really rewarding, also fairly emotionally draining, but but really, really rewarding.
And I'm actually would like to do this year, I would like to get one of our younger associates involved in doing one because it's also a great opportunity for them to practice their oral advocacy skills, and I can sort of supervise and oversee, them having that experience as well since they don't often get the opportunity to to go to court and and things of that nature.
HOST
That's fantastic. Stories like that are just so powerful.
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Yeah. It's important. It's it's important. I mean, I think, as lawyers, we have a duty in a way to advocate for underserved populations. So I think, I try to do pro bono every year if I can or at least, you know, facilitate it in some way or, you know, donate to a good cause. I try to do something every year if I can.
HOST
That’s great. And as you know, in the legal system, you have to have a lawyer to advocate for you or you risk not getting what you need.
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Yeah. And that there's studies on it that are something like, you know, unrepresented populations or people who who bring their cases into court. They're successful, like, ten percent of the time. And those sort of same same setup cases, etcetera, are successful eighty seven percent of the time if they are Yeah. If they are represented by counsel. So the it's really it's really very, very stark.
HOST
In preparing for this interview, we read that wonderful profile the Washingtonian magazine did on you a few years ago.
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Oh, thank you. It's it's the first thing that comes up when people Google me, and I I wish it was the the Womble website, but instead, it's this other thing.
HOST
Well, one thing that that stuck out that you mentioned is that you're a Harry Potter fan. What is it about those books that connected with you, that resonated?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
Well, there's a few things. First, they came out literally with my age. Right? So Harry was the same age as me, and they came out as, you know, each year as I was growing up. And so it became something of a sort of a waiting game and a ritual to wait for the book, buy the book, read just devour the book and then, you know, wait for the movie, and all of that. So that's, I think there's something of, you know, a childhood nostalgia there.
And I do find them to be my sort of my comfort book because when I was studying for the bar exam, for example, and I didn't want to go to sleep thinking about tax law and other things, I I picked up Harry Potter and I read the series again because I was like, I can clear my mind of it. And I think that's what I love most about it is the creativity, of an entire world, entire languages, entire just just an entire world created more or less out of thin air by one individual is just astonishing to me. And and yeah. So I I really I really enjoy sort of using them as sort of like an escape from from the day to day.
HOST
Jumping to mock trial – you’ve mentioned the experience you’ve had in the past, how are you involved today?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
So I did mock trial competitions, I think I mentioned, during law school and I also planned mock trial competitions for the school. And then when I graduated, I still, to this day, I go back and I judge those mock trial competitions.
So I've been judging mock trial competitions now for about eight years. And it's on a weekend and I go for, you know, four hours and watch advocates sort of present their case. And I just really enjoy it. I think it's so great. I think it's maybe one of the best learning experiences these students can have, and they they they have it available at, like, the high school school and the undergraduate and then the law school level.
I usually judge the undergraduate and the law school level, and you would be just astonished at how good some of these students are. Really, really good.
So I have a good relationship with the dean, dean of trial advocacy at GW Law, and, he told me when I graduated from law school, he said, come back to me in about five years and I'll I'll hire you. And it was COVID at the five year mark, so we waited a little longer than that.
But, this past year I did get hired as an adjunct professor, which has been such a joy. And I just took three competitors to a competition last weekend, and it was incredible. It was they their grasp of legal complexities really stood out in this in this field, and it was a difficult field. It was really a bunch of really talented competitors. But being able to teach, I found I really I really enjoy teaching.
So I would meet with them and we'd talk through like, okay, this this is the piece of evidence. What are the the admissibility problems? What are the authentication problems? What are the hearsay problems? How do we get around them? What's the best argument?
And I think that was one of the things that really set the team apart was their arguments on some of the evidentiary issues were really, really complex and I don't think some of the other teams were expecting that. So got a ton of, a ton of fulfillment out of that experience, and so I'm gonna continue doing that on the side, just like probably one semester or something.
HOST
That’s wonderful. Well, you certainly have a very full schedule. With what’s left of your spare time, what do you enjoy doing when you’re not busy with the law?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
But prior to this, I used to teach at Equinox, which is a gym, a fancy gym, in DC. I taught group fitness classes. So I think teaching somehow has become my my side thing. I just I really enjoy it.
And, aside from that, I really like being in nature. I love all animals, and I love hiking. My husband and his two brothers and I just did, Machu Picchu over Thanksgiving.
We did a four day hike in in the jungle, basically. No showers, tents, the whole nine yards. It was it was wild. It was really, really fun, though. So I really enjoy being in nature. I I love horseback riding. I grew up riding horses. So anything where I can sort of get out of the suit and get into some boots and get a little dirty, that's that's my jam.
HOST
Your trip to Macchu Picchu sounds amazing. Can you tell us more?
JASMINE CHALASHTORI
It was awesome. It was really very, very cool, like once in a lifetime. Highly recommend it. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be. I don't know what I was expecting, but it was it was really difficult because the altitude is insane. I mean, you start out at eleven thousand feet and you get up to as high as fourteen thousand feet.
So it's, I mean, you're you're you're taking you're taking I'm a pretty good hiker. Right? We we hike probably a few times a month and we can hike, you know, six miles pretty easy. You're going so dang slow in in the altitude, and Puffing and puffing. I'm telling you my heart rate was just through the roof the whole time. But really rewarding.
You got to see you can take just the train to Machu Picchu instead of doing the hike, but you don't get to see all of the really cool ruins on the way, which you can only get to by doing this hike. So, that's sort of one of the benefits is is you get to see all this extra stuff and there's all these like alpaca and llama just, like, all over the trail. And so you're hiking literally, you know, they're right next to you.
HOST
Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us on today’s episode, Jasmine, and thank you to our listeners. We hope you've enjoyed getting to know some of our attorneys over the past few weeks and we’re looking forward to continuing to share their stories throughout the month of March. Join us for more of their personal stories and how their experiences help them provide our clients with a unique point of view like no other.
Thank you for listening to Womble Perspectives. If you want to learn more about the topics discussed in this episode, please visit The Show Notes, where you can find links to related resources mentioned today. The Show Notes also have more information about our attorneys who provided today's insights, including ways to reach out to them.
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